Posts by michael downing

8

How good are you at hating?

by michael downing in

i posted this on another board on this site i didn't like the title and couldn't change it.

i don't think anybody wanted to read it because they thought it was actualy about baseball based on the title.

you'd be hard pressed to find a day between 1976 and 1987 that didn't contain one of my showstopping hyperactive bugouts.

I posted this on another board on this site I didn't like the title and couldn't change it. I don't think anybody wanted to read it because they thought it was actualy about baseball based on the title.

You'd be hard pressed to find a day between 1976 and 1987 that didn't contain one of my showstopping hyperactive bugouts. Each one a classic in its own right. One particular summer day around the age of seven while watching a Phillies game with my Dad, my performance garnered a banishment to my room with my older sister who would help me memorize scriptures for my eventual debut as a fully functioning, contributing member of my local Kingdom Hall. Memorizing was not easy for me due to a lack of concentration. There were several culprits, sugar being the most popular; Satan a close second. Despite this my sister hit upon a verse that was destined to be stuck in my memory forever - 1 John 4:8. Oddly, this is a confusing scripture for a child to learn, circuitous logic is not ground the very young tend to tread on.

It is ironic that this was the first verse I "learned", as it seems these days Love is exactly the thing I find so lacking...in the congregation that is. I've come to the realization that the deficiency is due to time. Making sure you hate everything you are meant to hate as a true worshiper of Jehovah, doesn't leave alot of time to make sure you're loving (in the verb and adjective case). The danger is that love takes effort, hating is easy. But there is alot of stuff to hate out there, and a true Christian would be a disappointment if they were to not hate enough. Hate till it hurts. Hate starts at home. May the Hate be with you.

This leads me to this past Sunday and the abominable Public Talk I had the displeasure of letting infest in my ears. A South African brother who obviously has never been challenged on anything on his way to gaining tenure as an elder, gave a compassionless and reprehensible screed on the usual time-beaten topic of remaining free from the world. Only, he wasn't satisified to pass along the standard factory spew that his outline contained, he felt it necessary to use his bully pulpit to force feed an additional helping of ignorance to the smattering of those who showed up.

Things I learned from the Public Groupthink on Sunday:

Jehovah hates those who don't serve him. This makes total sense because he's God and obviously can handle vast amounts of hate. Our hate capacity is but a drop in the proverbial hatebucket.
At public areas, such as shops and other such places, people all push out of the doors at the same time because of "Me-ism", knocking over old people and babies, everyone only cares about themselves. Although I have not witnessed this myself, everyone should believe it because, those people don't serve Jehovah so, what? they're gonna be nice? Like, as if !!
When "The Man" wants you to go to University, he's only trying to "increase the schools numbers to bring glory to them" . So why would you give them the satisfaction dufus? You'll need all your concentration making sure one of the Me-ists doesn't knock your illiterate ass over at the mall while you're doing business-witnessing.
Women should not have opinions. Huzzah! If I had it my way, women wouldn't even be allowed to be elders let alone on the Governing Body...wait... anyway, you know what would happen then, we wouldn't be able to have teal and mauve decorated Kingdom Halls anymore. They'd nix that immediately. Doilies on everything!

In his conclusion, he stated four points we would need to remember to make sure we were right with God. Three of them were to do with hating with impunity all that God hates, and the last to love what God loves. What a terrible ratio. Everyone apparently found this Public Talk rapturous judging from the comments I heard after the meeting. Myself, I wanted to go ask him to provide references for some of his more bizarre claims (divorce has risen 20% in the last 12 months in the city I live in? Really? My BS senses are tingling). But I'm sure referencing quoted data in talks would not go over so big. Make up whatever stats you like bitches, God don't need no fact-checkin'!

When I went back out into the living room after learning my first scripture that afternoon 20 years ago, my Dad told me that Mike Schmidt had hit 2 homeruns in the time I was gone. That day I learned something that I will always believe... that Mike Schmidt was the greatest third baseman of all-time.

30

What if she hadn't eaten the fruit?

by michael downing in

based solely on whats available in the genesis account, what would happen if eve had not eaten the fruit but had continued a relationship with the "serpent" in perpetuity questioning god's motives?

would she be punished for this exercise of free will?.

i ask the question because my personal belief is that if the genesis account is in fact allegory, then what comes after it should be awarded no more acknowledged efficacy that what we prescribe to aesop, confucius or any other pragmatic, non-theistic value-set that has survived history .

michael downing

I wonder those things myself. Omnipotence and Omniscience also perplex me. He can't stop Satan? He didn't know it would happen?

The more I think about it I cannot shake the the belief that, no matter how you slice it, God chooses to let people suffer or is the persecutor himself. I prefer not believing at all. Who would worship someone so callous?

If you read Genesis from a literary perspective, the whole story seems so ridiculously slapped together. I remember years ago listeining to Bill Moyers "Genesis", a panel discussion of a group of philosophers and theologists from the Big 3 religions. There was a concensus there that the Old Testament God was "learning" or immature. After that, Genesis read like God's high school Creative Writing assignment to me.

The flood story makes me feel like mankind is in an abusive relationship. God gets jealous, destroys the house, slaps his wife and kids, and then calms down, realizes what he's done and goes the "I promise I'll never do that again" route, buying flowers (rainbow) and everything.

31

Ridiculous JW superstitions

by B_Deserter in

i'm not talking about the stuff you hear at the kingdom hall, i'm talking about the "experiences" you were told of by people you knew.

the big one for me was demons.

so many people i know had experiences with them.

michael downing

My mom would not let us vote, for anything! If I had friends over..ok I had friends over ONCE. We all went out to rent a video but we couldn't agree on what movie to get so somebody said "Lets put it to a vote!" and my mom scolded him in the middle of the video store "We don't vote!". I was mortified

Of course she also thinks the moon landing was a hoax. Seriously.

30

What if she hadn't eaten the fruit?

by michael downing in

based solely on whats available in the genesis account, what would happen if eve had not eaten the fruit but had continued a relationship with the "serpent" in perpetuity questioning god's motives?

would she be punished for this exercise of free will?.

i ask the question because my personal belief is that if the genesis account is in fact allegory, then what comes after it should be awarded no more acknowledged efficacy that what we prescribe to aesop, confucius or any other pragmatic, non-theistic value-set that has survived history .

michael downing

So if Satans influence had continued with Eve unabated, and her behavior started to mimic what we know now as "sin" (perhaps murdering Adam or incest with her children, dramatic I know) it stands to reason that her immortality would have remained intact, because she did not "know" what badness was.

I tend to agree with Zack, in this paradigm there was only one outcome, already set. Goodness is an concept that cannot be defined nor maintained in the Edenic sense because the supplier of both Goodness and Evil is the same entity.

It seems like the biblical God loves Satan more than mankind.

30

What if she hadn't eaten the fruit?

by michael downing in

based solely on whats available in the genesis account, what would happen if eve had not eaten the fruit but had continued a relationship with the "serpent" in perpetuity questioning god's motives?

would she be punished for this exercise of free will?.

i ask the question because my personal belief is that if the genesis account is in fact allegory, then what comes after it should be awarded no more acknowledged efficacy that what we prescribe to aesop, confucius or any other pragmatic, non-theistic value-set that has survived history .

michael downing

Based solely on whats available in the Genesis account, what would happen if Eve had not eaten the fruit but had continued a relationship with the "Serpent" in perpetuity questioning God's motives? Would she be punished for this exercise of Free Will?

I ask the question because my personal belief is that if the Genesis account is in fact allegory, then what comes after it should be awarded no more acknowledged efficacy that what we prescribe to Aesop, Confucius or any other pragmatic, non-theistic value-set that has survived history . This applies to a lesser extent to the Gospels for me, since there is very little evidence that these should be taken as accurate as well. As much as I believe such doctrines as 1914, abstaining from blood etc. have been supplanted by reason, overall I care little about the debate because it seems to me that the basis for them is make believe anyway.

Sometimes I get the impression that the Society/GB see's their strategy not unlike the Russians did during Napoleon's invasion.Continue to retreat until the time comes when the invasion can be neutralized by Armageddon, the Great Neutralizer, and Satan can eventually be weakened and deposed to his own personal Elba.

I see holes in doctrine like everyone else does. However, even in the areas we are meant to take at face value without extrapolation and adjustment over time, there are huge flaws in the logic and these to me are just as important, if not more so, as those doctrines that have required 'the light to get brighter'.

This forum is a godsend, for lack of a better word, to discuss these lapses of rationality.

13

Been in psychoanalysis/psychotherapy?

by michael downing in

being a dyed in the wool northeasterner means i have certain proclivities:.

a love of smashmouth nfc east football and an abiding affection for underachieving baseball teamsthe ability to find woody allen films (nee' woody allen himself) exceptionally funnyan uncontrollable desire to drive 4 miles out of my way to go to the place with the better bagelsno aversion to psychotherapy/analysisi went under psychotherapy for about 8 months; not near long enough to get the kind of depth thats needed but it was still insightful and liberating in its truncated form.

resistance is a huge factor in the process and i fought it like most, maybe with a subconscious disadvantage stemming from an inbred fear of "the world".

michael downing

Being a dyed in the wool Northeasterner means I have certain proclivities:

A love of smashmouth NFC East football and an abiding affection for underachieving baseball teams
The ability to find Woody Allen films (nee' Woody Allen himself) exceptionally funny
An uncontrollable desire to drive 4 miles out of my way to go to the place with the better bagels
No aversion to psychotherapy/analysis

I went under psychotherapy for about 8 months; not near long enough to get the kind of depth thats needed but it was still insightful and liberating in its truncated form. Resistance is a huge factor in the process and I fought it like most, maybe with a subconscious disadvantage stemming from an inbred fear of "the world". Ironically, this is Freudian and Witnessian simultaneously!

Initially I went under analysis for adoption related issues (anger etc.) but of course it became clear that my religion and the battle raging in my head and heart over my disbelief took center stage and never let go. The sessions became even more stressful when it seemed clear that I could not make any true progress until I let go of "the truth" and accepted one simple incontrovertible truth about myself; I am apparently capable of thinking for myself and I am not in need of redemption. To quote Patti Smith: "Jesus died for sombody's sins, but not mine".

So, I gave up the analysis, telling myself 'I'll go back if things change'. I want to, but right now I don't need any more pressure. The weight of coming to terms with knowing I have to end this twisted relationship between me and this illogical belief system once and for all is enough for now.

Has anybody else had a psychotherapy/analysis experience?